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  • Remote Viewing - Transcript 1 of 7 Joseph 'Joe' McMoneagle and Dr. Edwin C. May on the End of the Line / Sightings on the Radio show with Jeff Rense, 02 March 1997.
    be a tool The answer is well it depends on how you apply that tool If you try to use remote viewing to let s say see what Hale Bopp comet is doing that s a very inappropriate use of that tool that s kind of like the playing baseball with a can opener The reason is you have no idea whether you re right wrong or indifferent you re just guessing and nobody can confirm the answer RENSE No validation at all MAY No validation whatsoever On the other hand if you say there s a kidnap victim somebody who was kidnapped off the streets of Chicago could we use remote viewing to find that individual With 100 reliability Absolutely not But if you say could we use the remote viewing as a tool to assist law enforcement to help them find this kidnap victim a little faster than they would otherwise do I would say absolutely yes RENSE And as we both know the use of so called psychics by law enforcement agencies is certainly well it s not prolific but it s out there MAY That s true There are mixed results there but often enough this happens to where you know without a lot of publicity in front of the media some law enforcement officials will on their very tough cases come to so called psychics or even us to try to help on certain occasions RENSE You re right this isn t talked about much at all MAY No it s very quiet How did you Dr May become first involved with this whole idea of parapsychological research and remote viewing MAY I was what s called a postdoctoral fellow in nuclear physics at the University of California in Davis up here in the North land And I d never heard of psychic or parapsychology I was a fairly straight physicist doing what physics people do in terms of studying the inner workings of the atomic nucleus and I attended a conference at Davis organized by a well known psychologist by the name of Charles Tart And the conference was entitled Psychic Abilities And I d never heard of this so I went and listened I thought Gee if this stuff is really real then it s exquisitely important in terms of its implications for physics and physiology and a lot of other things And over time I became more and more interested and began looking into some of the research and began conducting some of my own research and just evolved into it as a full time occupation since 1976 RENSE How did I m going to jump ahead just a bit how did the CIA first become involved with this And that really talks about Stanford Research Institute I guess MAY Yes My colleagues Dr Harold Puthoff and Mr Russell Targ had a small contract from the CIA in 1972 at Stanford Research Institute And the CIA had asked them to investigate the abilities of a well known psychic in New York City by the name of Mr Ingo Swann The bottom line to speed things along is they invited Mr Swann out to SRI and lo and behold from a statistical point of view he could do what the claims were mainly remote viewing And so the CIA at that time became very interested My goodness if Mr Swann could sit in a laboratory office in SRI in Northern California near San Francisco and in his mind travel to anyplace in the world including to underground facilities in the Soviet Union then perhaps this could be used to help our nation in terms of gaining intelligence about the then perceived enemy of the Soviet Union RENSE Yes yes And when did you come into the picture then MAY I joined that onworking group early in 1976 as a Senior Research Physicist There s a joke about we physicists that we re jacks of all trades and masters of none laughs and because of my background in experimental work it was a nice adjunct to the team And so we worked closely together as a team By attrition Puthoff left in 1985 and Mr Targ left in 1982 a little earlier so I became the project director in 1985 and have been so to this day RENSE Alright very good groundlaying we ll be back with Dr Ed May and pursue this fascinating story about remote viewing tonight here at The End of the Line break RENSE We re back talking to Dr Ed May Dr May by 1976 when you joined the program the CIA had been involved for about four years beginning with Ingo Swann in 1972 and moving on At what point was the program in its evolutionary sense at that point MAY Well if I could correct something a little earlier the CIA has been given lots of credit for this program or detraction from it depending upon your viewpoint RENSE Right Actually the CIA for the most part were really small players in this whole game They started the program and spent about 275 000 which for you and me is a lot of money but for government programs it s hardly a stamp budget RENSE That s right And they actually quit funding the program in 1975 RENSE Well they just sort of pulled back and dropped out MAY Yeah they pulled back and dropped out for a number of reasons Probably if you recall your history at that time the Watergate scandal had hit and the CIA was in trouble on all fronts for doing stuff they shouldn t do so they tried to unload as much borderline things as they could possibly do to save from being embarrassed in Congress and the press Fortunately for the program and for us other members of the so called intelligence community picked up the program one of those being the Defense Intelligence Agency which is the military version

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  • Remote Viewing - Transcript 2 of 7 Joseph 'Joe' McMoneagle and Dr. Edwin C. May on the End of the Line / Sightings on the Radio show with Jeff Rense, 02 March 1997.
    t seem there is that ability RENSE Would you tell me if there were MAY Yes I definitely would I spent the major part of my earlier career in parapsychology looking at what is called psychokinesis To translate that from the greek it means movement by the mind or of the mind RENSE Right Did you find any influence to substantiate that MAY sighs I frankly have not Now there are other people in our field that might disagree with me But my assessment of the data that I ve seen in other laboratories and experiments I ve conducted myself and those experiments which I ve analyzed both in China and in Russia and in Hungary and in Poland I don t think it s real RENSE So you see ads occasionally how to influence others around you with your thoughts this is an old shtick that s been around for a long time MAY Right But from a scientific standpoint you have found you re gonna stand on this you found no evidence that we can even though we can obviously remote view successfully maybe up to 40 50 of the time we cannot control implant or influence the thoughts of others in our lives or even unbeknownst to us MAY At this point that s what the evidence forces me to say Now I have to say as a curious scientist I wish that weren t the case Wouldn t it be interesting if somehow thinking about things could influence the real world But our data doesn t support that just yet Another point though that is very serious if we re speaking about evolutionary things if you passively can gather information about your surroundings to optimize your survival if I do that that doesn t threaten you But suppose I could influence you with my mind and then it becomes a battle that maybe I m stronger than you are or you re stronger than me we get into a psychic mind fight if it s real and that isn t optimized for anybody s survival So even if it did exist I think it would just by natural selection go away RENSE Such a big field parapsychology People who bend things psychokinetic powers and so forth are charlatans Frauds MAY Well I think there are people who believe they can bend stuff I mean there are some what are so called PK Parties where everybody gets together following the model of Mr Uri Geller the Israeli magician who claimed to be able to bend stuff and gosh get whipped up into a frenzy and everybody s saying bend and bend and bend and the experience is that you don t know how much actual force that you re putting on this metal So I have to say that those things are all done under such uncontrolled conditions even if it were happening you couldn t verify that it was true And frankly I don t think

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  • Remote Viewing - Transcript 3 of 7 Joseph 'Joe' McMoneagle and Dr. Edwin C. May on the End of the Line / Sightings on the Radio show with Jeff Rense, 02 March 1997.
    time in the project and the project was designed to just address the issue of whether or not it could be done What unfortunately happened is we were overtaken by a serious situation which was the Iran hostage scenario and as a result of the difficulties in collecting intelligence on that we were given the task of trying to target it And it worked so well in fact that it sort of opened the barn doors RENSE Can you share any of that with us tonight MCMONEAGLE Well I can talk a little bit about the Iran hostage problem One of the difficulties of course was the inaccessibility to the embassy compound in Tehran Using remote viewers we were able to produce some interesting insights with regard to who was holding the hostages where they were being held their conditions their mental and physical state We were addressing problems such as which would be a possible ingress egress route to the compound booby traps that might have been set a whole raft of different things RENSE Now you re mentioning a lot of things here you re not talking too specifically about them but I get the impression that these were the areas that you had some success with MCMONEAGLE We had a number of significant successes We also had a number of just outright failures It was a new process and we were trying to adapt it to an emergency situation RENSE Joe were you involved in any way in planning that attempted you must have been hostage rescue mission that went so terribly awry in the desert MCMONEAGLE Well there s a lot of reasons why that happened Let s just say that I think the President made the right decision when he decided to call that particular raid off RENSE Hmmn OK What are some of the misbeliefs about what you did with the government What do people think that happened that really didn t happen MCMONEAGLE There s a lot of misconceptions about remote viewing that have sort of been birthed out of the media frenzy that followed the disclosure about the project Some of those beliefs are that remote viewing can be used very well for locating missing people or lost objects that sort of thing and in fact that s probably one of the most difficult things that it can be used for there s a lot of complications that come about when you re trying to use it for location purposes There s also a misconception that it s used to specifically target individuals in some way that s nefarious when in fact the only reason for even having a person as a target would be to obtain a description of the location in which they might be standing that it would be important for another reason RENSE Let s talk about the Gulf War There was a lot of talk that there was a big priority on killing Saddam Hussein were the

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  • Remote Viewing - Transcript 4 of 7 Joseph 'Joe' McMoneagle and Dr. Edwin C. May on the End of the Line / Sightings on the Radio show with Jeff Rense, 02 March 1997.
    could be lying or you know misrepresenting the truth in some way But having found two sources you must also investigate whether or not those two sources are independent of each other Because they both might tell the exact same lie for whatever reason RENSE Kind of sounds like Journalism 101 to me MAY Definitely Journalism 101 In my opinion having been as close to this program as I ve been since 1976 Mr Schnabel failed miserably at the second part of that job and thus there are gross inaccuracies ranging from the trivial such as he says Mr Swann s remote viewing falls in three classes A B and C and he misrepresents what those classes actually are from the trivial example to some of the really important examples which I can t go into because of their current level of classification RENSE Yes MCMONEAGLE I agree with what Ed s saying I have an additional problem It is apparent to me from what I know about the program that there were probably a handful of individuals that essentially gave him the material that he used for his book and in fact some of those individuals do have an axe to grind with regard to some of the other members in the program RENSE You re talking about disinformation MCMONEAGLE Right sighs it s not so much telling lies as it is leaving things out or lying by omission RENSE That s just as bad of a lie as a lie when you leave something out intentionally MCMONEAGLE Well it is when it in my opinion when it does a gross disservice to some of the other individuals that have contributed to the program Some of his comments regarding some of the women participants in the program and some of the participants at SRI or later at SAIC were unconsciounable MAY There s another very serious problem Without risking revealing or verifying or not any piece of information in Schnabel s book if what some of the former Army personnel were saying and interviewed in Jim Schnabel s book is true then it is now a big IF then they are in direct violation of their security agreements and should be thrown in jail On the other hand if it isn t true then this book shouldn t have been called a non fiction book it should be a greater work of fiction In either of those cases there are serious problems with the book RENSE Hmmmn OK let me go back to brass tacks Joe in your career as a remote viewer over 4000 remote viewings under controls you did a lot of work for the government from October 78 to November 1995 Can you tell us about some of the more famous or infamous events of this past 20 years that you may have played a role in you and the other remote viewers MCMONEAGLE Well like Ed had said before and I have to reiterate about

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  • Remote Viewing - Transcript 5 of 7 Joseph 'Joe' McMoneagle and Dr. Edwin C. May on the End of the Line / Sightings on the Radio show with Jeff Rense, 02 March 1997.
    spending on our money although not that much of it compared to what goodness knows the government spends on other programs have we been spending it validly and wisely MAY Well let me start off and then Joe you might want to chime in here First off as Jeff indicated when the show began that I m currently the President of the Parapsychological Association and I think most of your audience has probably heard of the American Association for the Advancement of Science which is the supremo scientific organization which all the member organizations belong to like the American Chemist s Society American Physics Society and we could not be a member of this august organization if our membership did not conduct experiments that conformed to the strictest rules of experimental protocols And there are journals that are peer reviewed and we beat up on each other mercilessly to make sure we get the best possible science So I can assure your listening audience that there is no question whatsoever based not just on our laboratory results but based on the results of our lab in conjunction with laboratories all over the world for the last 25 years that there is a phenomenon that we call ESP or Remote Viewing RENSE Very good well stated Ed We re gonna break now for news and come back and continue here at the End of the Line with Joe McMoneagle and Dr Ed May break RENSE Welcome back everybody our guests tonight Edwin May PhD Dr May who has been for some time now the Director of the Laboratories for Fundamental Research in Palo Alto and who has presided over 70 of the 20 million spent to date by the government on remote viewing and parapsychological research 85 of the data to date has been produced under Dr May s watch We also have with us Joe McMoneagle whose new reissued book MIND TREK is due out in about a month and we ll talk more about that Joe of course one of the original six government military remote viewers who was with the program in its entirety from October 1978 through November 1995 who has done over 4000 remote viewings under strict controls who has a remarkable success rate 55 60 of the time he will get hits of the targets he actually hits on he usually scores between 45 and 85 correct information on each one of those hits And 15 20 of the times he acquires his target it will be as clear as if a tracing was done of a photograph it is that accurate We are very happy to have these gentlemen here tonight we are trying to clear the air and bring focus to the phrase remote viewing which has been dragged through the dirty wash in the last year to be honest folks So let s go back to the phones now and talk to Kyle listening in on WICC in Bridgeport Connecticut Hi Kyle

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  • Remote Viewing - Transcript 6 of 7 Joseph 'Joe' McMoneagle and Dr. Edwin C. May on the End of the Line / Sightings on the Radio show with Jeff Rense, 02 March 1997.
    of how to conduct an experiment Transcriber note Again the web address for the Cognitive Sciences Laboratory is http www jsasoc com csl RENSE Wow okay so I guess maybe the lesson here is don t spend 250 for a Ouija board or something CALLER laughs Great great well they ll be glad to hear that then MAY laughs indecipherable CALLER Thanks so much and good luck to all of you RENSE That s interesting fire sale prices guys 3000 marked down to 250 MAY Yeah really Ed Dames must be falling on hard times here RENSE I don t know alright we re gonna take a break here and come back the phone number again 1 800 298 8255 I m Jeff Rense this is the End of the Line and we ll be right back break RENSE Alright gentlemen let s move on to the phones Bob as I see by my notes Idaho Falls Idaho Hello Bob you re on the air CALLER Thanks for taking my call I was wondering have these guys done much forward viewing I guess you would call it with some of the earth changes we might be experiencing political changes stuff like that in the future for the United States have they done much of that MCMONEAGLE One of the things that I ve been working on as a follow on book to Mind Trek is I ve been trying to collect remote viewings dealing with the future One of the things that s apparent about the future is that we will all be here in 1000 years One of the other things apparent about the future is that there will be changes certainly in the climate I don t foresee any megalithic changes you know like instantaneous type changes but I do see some rather varying degrees of the average temperatures and perhaps water levels CALLER What about the more immediate future like the next 5 10 years Can you narrow that down a little bit better Thanks for taking my call MCMONEAGLE The next five to ten years I don t foresee anything other than perhaps a marked increase and by marked increase I mean probably a 5 8 increase in the severity of storms but this is probably going to be a direct result of half degree or quarter degree change in temperature across the earth RENSE Ed let me ask you a question With regard to seeing in the future is this a taboo area MAY Well one thing nice about being in science is as long as you can collect data under good protocols there isn t such a thing as a taboo area RENSE How about with respect to national security that was my point this is a very interesting area that Joe was opening up here I mean are you guys let s call it like it is is this a real hot ticket item looking into the future I gotta think it is MAY Well what the data show in the laboratory is that doing looking into the future there s a name for it these days called Precognition it s no more or no less accurate or reliable as regular remote viewing is And so it suffers both from the successes and the failures that you would expect from just normal remote viewing Clearly forecasting the future could be very helpful even if you re only right statistically if you could suppose you re searching for a kidnap victim and they re moving them around as Joe described in the Iran hostage situation wouldn t it be nice to sort of know where they re gonna put the hostage next Even if you re only right 10 of the time getting there in advance could save that hostage s life RENSE Joe did much of your remote viewing involve trying to clear ahead at various targeted objects and subjects MCMONEAGLE Well of course the most valuable use for that would be when you re trying to use other collection methods and you need a date time and perhaps a direction in which to point an overhead collection platform or something Quite a bit of that was done and it worked about as well as it normally works in normal remote viewing There is a unique twist that occurs with future viewing however it s sort of a technical problem If you can imagine if we were living in the year say 1895 and we were to target the lab where the first pump laser was built and tested we may get a 100 perfect description of that pump laser but we will have absolutely no understanding of the concept on how or why it works So even having the 100 correct information won t be of any benefit to us RENSE Well I would suggest that being able as you are Joe to acquire a target 55 60 of the time looking into the future would be pretty damned interesting MAY laughs MCMONEAGLE Well in fact I did spend just to underscore how difficult missing people is RENSE If I could ask you kindly to wait we have to break I m sorry to interrupt you but we will continue with this in just about three minutes with Joe and Ed what a subject what an interesting program We ll be right back break RENSE Alright we re back with Joe McMoneagle who was about to give an answer here Joe please continue MCMONEAGLE In the case of missing individuals one of the more interesting ones that I did work on for a period of almost three and a half years was a missing child I did it for a prosecuting attorney in one of my neighboring states here We were successful in a three and a half year period of locating where that child had been moved to twice but we were always a few weeks behind that person that took

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  • Remote Viewing - Transcript 7 of 7 Joseph 'Joe' McMoneagle and Dr. Edwin C. May on the End of the Line / Sightings on the Radio show with Jeff Rense, 02 March 1997.
    throughout the years is rather than do dry boring academic research we ve been successful at being funded and actually learned about research primarily because we ve developed uses and ways of applying remote viewing And Joe s company is just one example of that RENSE You know I still have to get back to that most intriguing idea of future viewing And I just really think that that s an area that merits further discussion on this program at some point in time Ed did you do much work with that concept in the lab over these last 20 years future viewing MAY Yes we ve certainly done a lot of that sort of work other laboratories in the US such as Princeton and other universities have done also a great deal of work One of the approaches we ve had is to use because remote viewing is not all that accurate compared to reading a book let s say we ve used techniques from a science called Information Science you know if you have a hard disk on your computer it isn t 100 accurate and they use very clever techniques to decrease the error rate called using information theory We ve done that same sort of thing with remote viewing and successfully although not often won money on the stock market and the horse races using information theory to enhance the normal probability of future remote viewing RENSE Interesting All done in the name of science of course MAY Yeah I haven t won much money out of it I gotta tell you We haven t funded our project that way laughs RENSE Very interesting Ed do you have a written address you want to give out too If people want to write to you MAY Sure that would be just fine The laboratory address is 330 Cowper Street Suite 200 Palo Alto California 94301 USA RENSE And how bout your email address if you d like to give that out MAY That is a very good way to communicate with us We try our best to answer all emails although you can imagine we get many And that is may lfr org RENSE Alright that s simple enough We are just about out of time we have one more break here and we ll come back and wrap this thing up The future of the government s involvement in remote viewing at this point Joe how would you sum it up in a sentence or two MCMONEAGLE In a sentence or two They aren t involved And I don t foresee their involvement in the very near future RENSE Is that said after remote viewing the subject group laughter MCMONEAGLE No that s said having been 20 years in that business and knowing how they think and operate RENSE How interesting Ed MAY Well I have to agree I m sorry to say that s probably the case RENSE Really interesting and again people might be

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  • Remote Viewing - Joseph 'Joe' McMoneagle interviewed on the Tom Snyder television show, transcript.
    SRI International the ones they selected to be exposed to the remote viewing protocols and then to actually do some remote viewing Tom And then was there not a branch of the Army that was set up and there were a number of you who were able to do remote viewing or remote imaging and you were assigned various tasks You were given certain things to do in terms of finding stuff out Joe Right exactly Tom Ok Now so and one of those like tracking nuclear weapons I think you say in this book Mind Trek it is very important that we should know where nuclear weapons are that they re moving into the hands of different political powers day by day and we should have that information Joe One of the amazing things about remote viewing is the specific targets that they re probably most accurate with are high energy type targets or targets that have high energy chain state And uh nuclear material has that kind of energy And historically we ve always done very very well with nuclear targets So in this age of the attempts for venting the proliferation of nuclear weapons or the spread of nuclear material remote viewing could provide a substantial help for that Tom You say we ve had remarkable success could you give us an example of something that s come from remote imaging that s turned out to be truley useful information that has helped us in terms of our national security Joe Oh sure in one case we were targeting a building that was a very large building in the northern part of the USSR And no one knew what was going on inside the building And targeting that building I drew out a drawing of a submarine I described its uh canad tubes how many tubes it had a large flat area on the rear deck described it as a large submarine and it was a new Typhoon Class Submarine We were able to predict when it was actually going to be rolled out of the building and in that way they were able to target other collection systems Tom And all this you did doing remote viewing Joe Yes from Virginia Tom And you would go to your office in the morning I assume like most people 8 8 30 in the morning work an eight hour day and you would have a desk and they would bring you things and say here work on this Joe Right Generally speaking it was an eight hour day sometimes it was more than that Tom Sigh Unbelievable Um you don t have trouble getting to sleep at night do you Joe Sometimes Tom Do you really Joe laughter Yes Tom Sometimes it s hard to turn the pictures off is it Joe Uh no it s the spontenaity of it sometimes happens but generally speaking it s something that takes a lot of focus and it takes a

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