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  • What is Real? Discussions with Ranga. - Page 9 of 15 - Unreal Blog
    is the mediating boson for EM interactions in QED So it can be argued that we sense only EM matter using photon I have quite a bit more about it in my book This is a good point why light is important to us as it is part of the EM spectrum However PR that is created by light in different beings could still be different because the PR is created by also the sense organs and the brain whose varied limitations and features in different species can result in different PRs Secondly tactile olfactory and auditory sensations although can be argued to be fundamentally based on EM there are also non EM interactions here do not use the visible part of the EM spectrum as vision does So how much the speed of EM limit affects them and how important it is to the PR created by these organs has to be discussed at least before jumping to sweeping conclusions About the blind man s sense of space the answer lies in the role of language in creating our reality Language serves to normalize our separate perceptual realities In order to appreciate its role fully we have to find someone who didn t have a language for sometime and then acquired it Like Helen Keller I went into it in some detail in the book My point is if you had a bunch of isolated blind people as a blind civilization with its own language I don t think they will have a cognitive representation of space Again another assertion that cannot be tested or verified A person who is blind and who didn t have a language would still be able to reach out and touch things feel them and carry out his functions Studies on blind sight are extremely insightful in this regard So it does not mean that language is necessary for spatial processing Cognitive representation of space does not need language and please don t write that in your book And another thing is while imagining a thought experiment it helps to make it as simple as possible otherwise you may make an experiment to just prove your point and not see any other Language helps us to communicate certain things interchangeably across senses you would find many anecdotes in the paper I sent you about blind people Coming back to the need to validate my model for AR we have a pretty good idea of how our senses work at a macro level I mean when we look at a star a million light years away we know that what we are seeing is what happened a million years ago This time delay is a first order effect of the finite speed of light A second order effect is the manifestation of the finite speed of light in our perception of motion We cannot deconvolute out this manifestation from our perception of motion one reason why the PR AR mapping is one to many

    Original URL path: http://www.thulasidas.com/what-is-real/9/ (2016-02-16)
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  • What is Real? Discussions with Ranga. - Page 10 of 15 - Unreal Blog
    I also didn t understand differentiated as you used it here On the last point of it being just PR we certainly know that there is more to reality than what we see When we look at the night sky what we are looking at is the way the universe was some time ago not the way it is now Secondly tactile olfactory and auditory sensations although can be argued to be fundamentally based on EM there are also non EM interactions here All interactions that we can sense are electromagnetic in nature We sense either EM directly or the effect of some other interaction on EM matter Nothing else What interactions sense were you thinking about here Cognitive representation of space does not need language and please don t write that in your book I do believe language as in the philosophy of language vehicle of thoughts rather than just words is a pre requisite to reality To the extent that space is a part of PR yes without language you won t have space This is well articulated by Helen Keller who didn t have a reality until she discovered language However given a model we can certainly verify whether it is consistent with our PR So I have made my point about this and I shall rest it Whatever model you propose you can neither verify nor falsify I beg to differ I think we can do both Verification through how well the predicted perception is indeed perceived Falsification by the pr edition of features that are forbidden that may be observed As talked about space is a representation of sight and other organs too For the convenience of a study you can choose to study one aspect and that is sight To me what smell is to olfactory sense and what sound is to hearing is what space is to sight I know you don t agree with me on this because touch sense seems to corroborate space But that s only because sight overwhelms touch At least that s my view we may never see eye to eye on this one I have spent equal amount if not more of my time on this too in writing something new every time while you have been just repeating your book Fair enough May be you should consider putting your thoughts as a cohesive whole and writing a book I don t remember whether we have talked about observed superluminality Yes superluminality has been observed in certain astrophysical objects It is considered an optical illusion related to the angle of the object velocity wrt our line of sight Will find some more info for you I thought superluminality was observed in an object called M87 but now when I search for M87 and Superluminality I get only my writings May be I have gone crazy and imagined the whole shit cheers Manoj Share this Click to share on Reddit Opens in new window Click to share on

    Original URL path: http://www.thulasidas.com/what-is-real/10/ (2016-02-16)
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  • What is Real? Discussions with Ranga. - Page 11 of 15 - Unreal Blog
    organisms can move around Cheers Ranga Thu May 24 2007 at 7 36 PM Helen Keller could not articulate space perhaps before she had language because she didn t have language but she still moved around didn t she How can she move around without having a representation of space Even primitive organisms can move around So do planets and molecules They don t have a space Thu May 24 2007 at 7 51 PM Helen Keller could not articulate space perhaps before she had language because she didn t have language but she still moved around didn t she How can she move around without having a representation of space Even primitive organisms can move around So do planets and molecules They don t have a space How do you know they don t Ants move around with a purpose as much you do They may not be able to tell you so in your language but they communicate too By the way communicating an intention is different from having one Cheers Ranga Thu May 24 2007 at 7 57 PM So do planets and molecules They don t have a space How do you know they don t T i C same way you know Keller did have a space representation Ants move around with a purpose as much you do They may not be able to tell you so in your language but they communicate too By the way communicating an intention is different from having one I doubt whether lesser creatures have cognitive representations Dogs respond to sound but do they HEAR it I mean do they have a sound representation Could it be like blind sight Sort of deaf sound Share this Click to share on Reddit Opens in new window Click to share on

    Original URL path: http://www.thulasidas.com/what-is-real/11/ (2016-02-16)
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  • What is Real? Discussions with Ranga. - Page 12 of 15 - Unreal Blog
    and has allowed her to sense her surroundings She has to walk around eat drink etc 3 In 1890 ten year old Helen Keller was introduced to the story of Ragnhild KÃ ta a deaf blind Norwegian girl who had learned to speak Ragnhild KÃ ta s success inspired Helen she wanted to learn to speak as well Now she wants to speak She could communicate that she wanted to speak without speaking Doesn t she have a reality yet 4 Anne was able to teach Helen to speak using the Tadoma method touching the lips and throat of others as they speak combined with fingerspelling alphabetical characters on the palm of Helen s hand Later Keller would also learn to read English French German Greek and Latin in Braille Interestingly she picked up language by tactile perception alone All the above and also having seen many deaf blind mute people be as we are in the speech and hearing institute in mysore I sincerely feel that there is life and a fulfilled conscious life in most of these people Also this shows that there is indeed much reality whatever that we take it to be in these people I doubt whether lesser creatures have cognitive representations Dogs respond to sound but do they HEAR it I mean do they have a sound representation Could it be like blind sight Sort of deaf sound Now coming to the lesser creatures there is huge amount of literature in neuroscience on complex spatial and temporal processing in small to big creatures If you are interested I can send you some articles My friends in the Hertie Institute here do PhD on Neuroscience of spatial perception in rats to primates I visit the animals frequently as my German lessons are done there Rats are taught very complex tasks and they learn them with good feedback and reward There is no doubt to complex processing whether spatial temporal affective or cognitive Rats are routinely taught to maneuver through a maze They do not just react as you say to things but they can carry out complex cognitive processing and make decisions Now don t they have a reality If they don t then I m not sure what my reality is Whether conscious awareness of a percept amounts to reality is then the point considering that we do unconsciously process many things in our daily life too I think what you might mean by saying that they may just respond to sound but may not hear is implying that they are not consciously aware of their decisions Now this is a question that has received much attention recently Although conscious awareness of perceptions and decisions can be at best made by verbal reports they can be tested by motor output too There is again much evidence that lower animals could also be consciously aware Let me know if you want a review paper on this I m attaching here a review article not a

    Original URL path: http://www.thulasidas.com/what-is-real/12/ (2016-02-16)
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  • What is Real? Discussions with Ranga. - Page 13 of 15 - Unreal Blog
    suggestion is that I believe space is part of the PR Space itself is the perceptual effect While trying to prove this point we encountered the second point in the disagreement Space In my view space is a representation as in the following table Ears Sound Nose Smell Touch Temperature pain pressure Eyes Space and time through our ability to sense motion The only reason for our tactile sense to corroborate the space perception is that our sight sense is superior to all other senses Now if I were to present my physics ideas as perceptual effects I would be implying that space is real but we suffer from some distortions while sensing it using light My notion is that space is as unreal as sound and smell in a sense that it is only a cognitive model I m not quite sure what your point is in disagreeing with me here You are probably not suggesting that space is more real that sound and stuff But you still disagree with my idea of separating it from AR and presenting my theory the way I did as a CM model for AR and working out the PR through the speed of light Your main disagreement seems to be that any suggestion that AR can be modeled is inherently misleading and quite unpalatable Blindness and language You pointed out that the blind seem to have a space representation In my view it is the language that normalized the representations and brought in the Keller example I said that in the absence of language there is no reality a notion you find so idiotic to be almost hilarious I think this disagreement is probably not material for our main discussion I still hold on to my view about the role language in

    Original URL path: http://www.thulasidas.com/what-is-real/13/ (2016-02-16)
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  • What is Real? Discussions with Ranga. - Page 14 of 15 - Unreal Blog
    wrote The world is my representation It then becomes clear that I do not know a sun and an earth but only an eye that sees a sun a hand that feels the earth that the world around me is there only as representation in other words only in reference to another thing namely that which represents and that is myself If any truth can be expressed a prior it is this for it is the statement of the form that is more general than all others than time space and causality for all these presuppose it With this in view trying to model an absolute reality as following Classical Physics or anything else for that matter is putting it right back into our perceptual world I did not say that you cannot and should not speculate on it You could as people from time immemorial have done I have said before that people may have subjective insights into what this reality could be in terms of Samadhi or even Vishwaroopa Darshana but that remains in the purview of metaphysics theology or whatever else anything else but Science as you are trying to frame as it is defined with respect to verifiability and falsifiability Karl Popper because the methods and results of science are again within the sphere of our perception and intellect My second point is on the deeper question of what Absolute Reality could be Immanuel Kant was in fact the first to coin the term Noumenon as the AR Kant called the objective reality as the the thing in itself that means an absolute reality that exists beyond the perceiver and even in his absence Schopenhauer questioned this simplistic notion and superseded it and later found his concepts strikingly similar to the Vedas and Upanishads To quote his book The fundamental tenet of the Vedanta school consisted not in denying the existence of matter that is of solidity impenetrability and extended figure but in correcting the popular notion of it and in contending that it has no essence independent of mental perception that existence and perceptibility are convertible terms I would not want to repeat his work here but the main point here was that the object and the subject are deeply intertwined and one cannot exist without the other The subject object relation that brings about the notion of causality and hence space and time in our perceptual world are wonderfully painted in his seminal book The World as Will and Representation I urge you to read this book With this deeper understanding I would not speak about modeling an absolute reality in your vain anymore I see that what you propose arises out of a misunderstanding of the notion of absolute reality and its implications and this has to be seriously looked at Share this Click to share on Reddit Opens in new window Click to share on Voat Opens in new window Click to share on Facebook Opens in new window Click to share

    Original URL path: http://www.thulasidas.com/what-is-real/14/ (2016-02-16)
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  • What is Real? Discussions with Ranga. - Page 15 of 15 - Unreal Blog
    Ranga June 26 2006 manoj 1 Comment Tue Jun 26 2007 at 8 49 AM Hi Ranga About the presentation of the superluminal explanation my first few articles were presented as you suggest something like Assume that an object is moving superluminally How would we see it The immediate response is something like Nothing can move superluminally So shuddup Of course they put it more scientifically like The proposed model violates Lorentz invariance and is non physical I then needed to point out that the space where Lorentz invariance is respected is PR and the space where I consider superluminality is a model for AR I understand your uneasiness with my philosophical analysis It does lack rigor and is not as tightly argued as a philosopher s analysis But on the physics side my theory is both verifiable and falsifiable cheers Manoj Share this Click to share on Reddit Opens in new window Click to share on Voat Opens in new window Click to share on Facebook Opens in new window Click to share on Twitter Opens in new window Click to share on LinkedIn Opens in new window Click to share on Google Opens in new window Click to share on Tumblr Opens in new window Click to share on Pinterest Opens in new window Click to email this to a friend Opens in new window Click to print Opens in new window Related Comments Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Debates Philosophy Post navigation Next Post Superluminal Laser Dots One thought on What is Real Discussions with Ranga Pingback Unreal Blog Blog Archive The Big Bang Theory Comments are closed Advertisement Subscribe to Unreal Blog Email address Translations Most Popular Posts Blank Screen after Hibernate or Sleep 20

    Original URL path: http://www.thulasidas.com/what-is-real/15/ (2016-02-16)
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  • Tsunami - Unreal Blog
    coastal regions around the Indian ocean What do you think would ve have happened to this energy if there had been no water to carry it away from the earthquake I mean if the earthquake of the same kind and magnitude had taken place on land instead of the sea bed as it did presumably this energy would ve been present How would it have manifested As a more violent earthquake Or a longer one I picture the earthquake in cross section as a cantilever spring being held down and then released The spring then transfers the energy to the tsunami in the form of potential energy as an increase in the water level As the tsunami radiates out it is only the potential energy that is transferred the water doesn t move laterally only vertically As it hits the coast the potential energy is transferred into the kinetic energy of the waves hitting the coast water moving laterally then Given the magnitude of the energy transferred from the epicenter I am speculating what would ve happened if there was no mechanism for the transfer Any thoughts Share this Click to share on Reddit Opens in new window Click to share on Voat Opens in new window Click to share on Facebook Opens in new window Click to share on Twitter Opens in new window Click to share on LinkedIn Opens in new window Click to share on Google Opens in new window Click to share on Tumblr Opens in new window Click to share on Pinterest Opens in new window Click to email this to a friend Opens in new window Click to print Opens in new window Related Comments Debates environment Post navigation Previous Post Quant Life in Singapore Next Post Benford and Your Taxes Advertisement Subscribe to

    Original URL path: http://www.thulasidas.com/tsunami/ (2016-02-16)
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