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  • Re: Colin Andrews Re: We're Done Here, Now Go Away
    Done Here Now Go Away Cox snip To add to Colin Andrews comments via Dave Haith there was a noticeable absence of photographic evidence from the batches that were released in the early phases of the project This was the case in instances where witnesses were independently recorded as having provided such evidence to the MOD Any researcher of a forensic and perhaps pedantic mindset who wished to query the completeness of the release might find this to be one amongst a number of suitable angles to pursue It would also be interesting to hear Nick Pope s views on this particular matter as I believe he may be aware of evidence that was submitted to the MOD but which has not been released When I raised the issue with Clarke on a UK list he showed a distinct lack of interest I fact I was left with the impression that I was farting in church So it goes My view on this is pretty straightforward There are copies of photographs in some of the files There are also references to submitted photographs being returned to the sender I know of no instance where photographs were submitted but did not appear in the files and were not returned to the sender but even if there are I would assume that they were returned unless there is some evidence to the contrary e g a complaint from the sender that they had not been returned plus their non appearance in the files and no explanation given One reason why more images appear in later years is likely to be that they were digital images easily copied and transmitted via email there would be little justification for returning such images other than in the case of copyright protection but that doesn t

    Original URL path: http://ufoupdateslist.com/2013/jul/m11-002.shtml (2016-02-13)
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  • Re: Colin Andrews Re: We're Done Here, Now Go Away
    Thu 11 Jul 2013 13 35 57 0400 Subject Re Colin Andrews Re We re Done Here Now Go Away From Joe McGonagle joe mcgonagle nul To post nul Date Thu 11 Jul 2013 14 10 46 0100 Subject Re Colin Andrews Re We re Done Here Now Go Away Cox snip There are some documents which I believe are being retained without good reason most of them authored by or referring to our intelligent chum Nick Pope who demanded that they must not be released citing Data Protection and Human Rights legislation now what I wonder is he hiding List As far as governments are concerned with keeping public DATA private this quote came to mind Since there is no such entity as the public since the public is merely a number of individuals the idea that the public interest supersedes private interests and rights can have but one meaning that the interests and rights of some individuals take precedence over the interests and rights of others Ayn Rand 1905 1982 Roy Listen to Strange Days Indeed The PodCast At http www virtuallystrange net ufo sdi program These contents above are copyright of the author and UFO UpDates Toronto

    Original URL path: http://ufoupdateslist.com/2013/jul/m11-003.shtml (2016-02-13)
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  • Re: Colin Andrews Re: We're Done Here, Now Go Away
    post nul Date Thu 11 Jul 2013 14 10 46 0100 Subject Re Colin Andrews Re We re Done Here Now Go Away Cox snip There are some documents which I believe are being retained without good reason most of them authored by or referring to our intelligent chum Nick Pope who demanded that they must not be released citing Data Protection and Human Rights legislation now what I wonder is he hiding List As far as governments are concerned with keeping public DATA private this quote came to mind Since there is no such entity as the public since the public is merely a number of individuals the idea that the public interest supersedes private interests and rights can have but one meaning that the interests and rights of some individuals take precedence over the interests and rights of others Ayn Rand 1905 1982 Yeah and it s all fun and games until rat tails appear in the hamburger broken glass shows up in your Yogurt disease inoculations lower your kids IQ twenty five points and non admitted UFOs cruise the sky Then you discover that it was the public stringing up Mussolini with piano wire Oh and Ayn

    Original URL path: http://ufoupdateslist.com/2013/jul/m12-001.shtml (2016-02-13)
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  • US Government Tested A Flying Saucer In 1956
    Air Force had contracted with a Canadian firm Avro Aircraft Limited to produce what can only be described as a flying saucer While the National Archives provided a few images from Project 1794 last year the entire report is now available online http research archives gov description 6920770 The report summarizes Avro s work on its initial contract with the Air Force which financed a feasibility study to test the systems and principles that would be necessary to create what Avro called a flat vertical take off and landing aircraft E2 80 9D The ship was to reach a top speed between Mach 3 and Mach 4 and be capable of flying at 100 000 feet and ranging 1 000 nautical miles The document contains several schematics detailing alternative solutions to some of the engineering problems that the flying saucer posed Avro described 500 hours of wind tunnel tests done with a scale model and included photos of that process graphs of their results and assessments of remaining issues At the conclusion of the report Avro asked for more than 3 million to complete testing and development As Wired s Benjamin Plackett pointed out when the first saucer images were released last year that wasn t so much money by military standards It would translate to about 26 6 million today But the government decided to fund work on a smaller and less grand saucer prototype the Avrocar instead Like a helicopter not yet available for combat use this aircraft could hover near the ground access tight spots and help troops in need of reinforcement or resupply Plackett points to video of tests of the Avrocar in which the vehicle doesn t get more than a few feet off the ground Pilots found it rocky and unstable in motion even

    Original URL path: http://ufoupdateslist.com/2013/jul/m12-002.shtml (2016-02-13)
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  • Re: Colin Andrews Re: We're Done Here, Now Go Away
    of the release might find this to be one amongst a number of suitable angles to pursue It would also be interesting to hear Nick Pope s views on this particular matter as I believe he may be aware of evidence that was submitted to the MOD but which has not been released When I raised the issue with Clarke on a UK list he showed a distinct lack of interest I fact I was left with the impression that I was farting in church So it goes My view on this is pretty straightforward There are copies of photographs in some of the files There are also references to submitted photographs being returned to the sender I know of no instance where photographs were submitted but did not appear in the files and were not returned to the sender but even if there are I would assume that they were returned unless there is some evidence to the contrary e g a complaint from the sender that they had not been returned plus their non appearance in the files and no explanation given One reason why more images appear in later years is likely to be that they were digital images easily copied and transmitted via email there would be little justification for returning such images other than in the case of copyright protection but that doesn t seem to be much of an issue The bottom line is that the MoD can t release what they don t have If you have some evidence that images were submitted and not returned or included in the files I would be interested in seeing it OK a couple of issues relating to file AIR 2 16918 1 The Bush Hull case Negatives were returned but there is reference to images

    Original URL path: http://ufoupdateslist.com/2013/jul/m12-003.shtml (2016-02-13)
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  • Re: Colin Andrews Re: We're Done Here, Now Go Away
    These images are not in the file Yep you re right I eventually found the case you are talking about from the 1962 63 414 page file The papers refer to 4 photographs none of them included in the file 2 The Henson Taunton case When interviewed by Nick Redfern Anne Henson said that the official who visited her to investigate the case took photographs of objects lights similar to or the same as the ones she had reported These are not in the file In the report from Sgt Scott of P SS there is no mention of him taking photographs He does say that on the nights he attended the sky was overcast or the phenomenon wasn t apparent so any photographs he might have taken would have been superfluous and simply not forwarded to S6 It is obvious that that they cannot release what they haven t got but it is equally obvious that we cannot be sure that haven t got things that they say they haven t got There is prima facie evidence that the release is either selective or incomplete If governments could be shown to be honest and truthful then it would be easy to accept their word Unfortunately the evidence is to the contrary and there will always be doubt I agree to some extent as I wrote in my response to Colin Andrew s message I don t like the fact that the MoD have been so careless with files which should have been safeguarded under the Public Records Act and can fully understand why some people may be suspicious that the missing records contain something of significance Unfortunately we will never know for certain whether they did or not but based on the files so far released I sincerely doubt

    Original URL path: http://ufoupdateslist.com/2013/jul/m13-001.shtml (2016-02-13)
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  • Re: US Government Tested A Flying Saucer In 1956
    Re US Government Tested A Flying Saucer In 1956 From Terry W Colvin fortean1 nul To UFO UpDates Toronto post nul Date Fri 12 Jul 2013 10 38 21 0700 GMT 07 00 Subject US Government Tested A Flying Saucer In 1956 The Avro car was a small part of AVRoe s business The jetliner the CF 100 and then the Avro Arrow were the main concern particularly the latter It was cut in a suicide call by the new Prime Minister in 1959 one of this country s worst blunders So Avro shut down due to the stupidity of Prime Minister Diefenbaker who snatched mundane thinking from the jaws superior technical achievement not because of the cancellation of the AVRO car I don t know the politics that prompted that suicide call but I suspect it was a case of the elephant rolling over onto the mouse If the Canadian Avro Arrow was really as good as they say it was it would have competed with the US aircraft industry I understand it has long been subsidized by the US defence department Of course that reason is unlikely to see the light of day so poor old Dief will

    Original URL path: http://ufoupdateslist.com/2013/jul/m13-002.shtml (2016-02-13)
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  • Re: US Government Tested A Flying Saucer In 1956
    images from Project 1794 last year the entire report is now available online http research archives gov description 6920770 The report summarizes Avro s work on its initial contract with the Air Force which financed a feasibility study to test the systems and principles that would be necessary to create what Avro called a flat vertical take off and landing aircraft E2 80 9D The ship was to reach a top speed between Mach 3 and Mach 4 and be capable of flying at 100 000 feet and ranging 1 000 nautical miles Of course to we UFO buffs the AVRO saucers are very old news They also predate 1956 with the design teams starting work in 1951 Wikipedia seems to a decent job of covering the history of the project http en wikipedia org wiki Avro Canada VZ 9 Avrocar Joel Carpenter on the NICAP website ties it in with the Lockheed Skunkworks Kelly Johnson Dec 13 1953 UFO sighting and also Kenneth Arnold s original UFO sighting since the original AVRO flying saucer mockup was a virtually duplicate of what Arnold had described The head engineer Jack Frost yes real name says Carpenter followed the UFO scene carefully and thought Arnold s sighting was of these aircraft was absolutely genuine hence attempts to model a human saucer after them Of course none of this backstory as to what inspired the AVRO attempt is in the Wikipedia article http www nicap org reports lockufoinc htm I also have one of the articles Carpenter dug up from People Today Dec 13 1953 by coincidence same date as the Kelly Johnson sighting on my website since it also includes a quote by Gen Roger Ramey of Roswell weather balloon infamy debunking flying saucers again saying they were not material objects unlike

    Original URL path: http://ufoupdateslist.com/2013/jul/m13-003.shtml (2016-02-13)
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